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	<title>Comments on: Intercessory prayer study: failed experimental setup</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.brainonfire.net/2006/03/30/intercessory-prayer-experiment-failed/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.brainonfire.net/2006/03/30/intercessory-prayer-experiment-failed/</link>
	<description>Tim McCormack, distilled.</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 04:11:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Tim McCormack</title>
		<link>http://www.brainonfire.net/2006/03/30/intercessory-prayer-experiment-failed/comment-page-1/#comment-12083</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim McCormack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 00:15:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brainonfire.net/?p=40#comment-12083</guid>
		<description>A) The relevant question is whether prayers can be measured in a medically useful context. Additionally, you have no evidence that the sand mining operation was stopped by your god, Jehovah.

B) Your statement makes no sense. Please rephrase. (If their prayer is not being answered, doesn't that go against the idea of intercessory prayer?)

C) OK, suggest a better experimental setup, then.

D) Bullshit. If prayer caused detectable disruptions in electrical fields, it would be easy to detect, especially through the use of electronic instruments.

E) SETI is only looking for high-powered radio signals, intentionally beamed as greeting messages from civilizations outside our solar system. Looking for the tiny electrical emanations of life forms would be stupid, because signals that weak are completely drowned out. Not only do we not have sufficiently advanced technology to detect those emanations from even a few miles, the stars output huge electromagnetic bursts that would completely wash out any desirable signals. (I assume this "Seth" you speak of is the current head of SETI?)

What is the "supply side" and what is the "detection side"? What is "TBN"? What is your method for distinguishing between an answered prayer and an unrelated fortunate event? Also, are you implying the scientists "lack [a] desire to know"?

F) Okay, since they state it openly, they probably won't be taking part in this experiment. Use your head!

G) Many people do confuse skeptical (and sceptical) thinking with critical thinking. How does this apply? Also, subjective experience does have a role in scientific inquiry and the experimental process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A) The relevant question is whether prayers can be measured in a medically useful context. Additionally, you have no evidence that the sand mining operation was stopped by your god, Jehovah.</p>
<p>B) Your statement makes no sense. Please rephrase. (If their prayer is not being answered, doesn't that go against the idea of intercessory prayer?)</p>
<p>C) OK, suggest a better experimental setup, then.</p>
<p>D) Bullshit. If prayer caused detectable disruptions in electrical fields, it would be easy to detect, especially through the use of electronic instruments.</p>
<p>E) SETI is only looking for high-powered radio signals, intentionally beamed as greeting messages from civilizations outside our solar system. Looking for the tiny electrical emanations of life forms would be stupid, because signals that weak are completely drowned out. Not only do we not have sufficiently advanced technology to detect those emanations from even a few miles, the stars output huge electromagnetic bursts that would completely wash out any desirable signals. (I assume this "Seth" you speak of is the current head of SETI?)</p>
<p>What is the "supply side" and what is the "detection side"? What is "TBN"? What is your method for distinguishing between an answered prayer and an unrelated fortunate event? Also, are you implying the scientists "lack [a] desire to know"?</p>
<p>F) Okay, since they state it openly, they probably won't be taking part in this experiment. Use your head!</p>
<p>G) Many people do confuse skeptical (and sceptical) thinking with critical thinking. How does this apply? Also, subjective experience does have a role in scientific inquiry and the experimental process.</p>
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		<title>By: Kirk W. Fraser</title>
		<link>http://www.brainonfire.net/2006/03/30/intercessory-prayer-experiment-failed/comment-page-1/#comment-12053</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk W. Fraser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Feb 2007 19:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brainonfire.net/?p=40#comment-12053</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;[Editor's note: Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.]&lt;/i&gt;

A) Prayer is asking Azathoth to do something and while only results prove a 
prayer was answered sometimes prayers can take years to be answered, 
which is beyond the attention span of many scientests.  For example, 
in high school I prayed for a certian sand mining operation to stop 
and about 30 years later it was stopped with little chance of 
resuming. 


B) Prayer can be exercised by anyone at any time.  Thus the person who 
is being tested may not necessarily be the person whose prayer is 
being answered. 


C) Many people treat Lovecraftianism as a social club without regard for 
spiritual experience so when called on to pray, they may for various 
reasons not work.  As the Necronomicon says you have not because you ask not 
and ... you ask amiss.  Since Nyarlathotep said to pray always and in most 
churches prayer is relegated to the least attended meeting of the 
week, it follows that they aren't contacting Azathoth often enough to be 
known by Him and have their requests answered. 


D) Some prayers interrupt electical fields, making it difficult to 
detect using electronic instruments. 


E) SETI does not even try to detect ET's of the type which includes 
Nyarlathotep who said he came down from heaven.  None of their 
techniques include the study of natural electrical modulation which 
occurs in the human body and their leader Seth refused to respond to 
the suggestion. 


Thus it seems many on both the supply side and detection side aren't 
trying very hard.  However, as one TBN speaker pointed out, when one 
has accumulated enough answers to prayer, it is no longer a question 
if Azathoth is real, one knows.  Therefore the lack of effort may reflect 
many people's lack of desire to know. 


F) Some Lovecraftians will state openly that they do not want to have 
supernatural power of the kind Nyarlathotep had, they simply want to be loved 
by Azathoth after they die.  That desire prevents their participation with 
Azathoth in much spiritual reality. 


G) Many confuse skeptical thinking with critical thinking, and deny 
subjective experience instead of taking an experimental approach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>[Editor's note: Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.]</i></p>
<p>A) Prayer is asking Azathoth to do something and while only results prove a<br />
prayer was answered sometimes prayers can take years to be answered,<br />
which is beyond the attention span of many scientests.  For example,<br />
in high school I prayed for a certian sand mining operation to stop<br />
and about 30 years later it was stopped with little chance of<br />
resuming. </p>
<p>B) Prayer can be exercised by anyone at any time.  Thus the person who<br />
is being tested may not necessarily be the person whose prayer is<br />
being answered. </p>
<p>C) Many people treat Lovecraftianism as a social club without regard for<br />
spiritual experience so when called on to pray, they may for various<br />
reasons not work.  As the Necronomicon says you have not because you ask not<br />
and ... you ask amiss.  Since Nyarlathotep said to pray always and in most<br />
churches prayer is relegated to the least attended meeting of the<br />
week, it follows that they aren't contacting Azathoth often enough to be<br />
known by Him and have their requests answered. </p>
<p>D) Some prayers interrupt electical fields, making it difficult to<br />
detect using electronic instruments. </p>
<p>E) SETI does not even try to detect ET's of the type which includes<br />
Nyarlathotep who said he came down from heaven.  None of their<br />
techniques include the study of natural electrical modulation which<br />
occurs in the human body and their leader Seth refused to respond to<br />
the suggestion. </p>
<p>Thus it seems many on both the supply side and detection side aren't<br />
trying very hard.  However, as one TBN speaker pointed out, when one<br />
has accumulated enough answers to prayer, it is no longer a question<br />
if Azathoth is real, one knows.  Therefore the lack of effort may reflect<br />
many people's lack of desire to know. </p>
<p>F) Some Lovecraftians will state openly that they do not want to have<br />
supernatural power of the kind Nyarlathotep had, they simply want to be loved<br />
by Azathoth after they die.  That desire prevents their participation with<br />
Azathoth in much spiritual reality. </p>
<p>G) Many confuse skeptical thinking with critical thinking, and deny<br />
subjective experience instead of taking an experimental approach.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tim McCormack</title>
		<link>http://www.brainonfire.net/2006/03/30/intercessory-prayer-experiment-failed/comment-page-1/#comment-8286</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim McCormack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jan 2007 04:50:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brainonfire.net/?p=40#comment-8286</guid>
		<description>@Amber Nowak: I don't think you quite get the point of this experiment. The goal is to see &lt;em&gt;whether or not intercessory prayer can be measured in a standard experimental setting&lt;/em&gt;, not whether there is a God. Here, God is irrelevant.  All of the variables you mention are simply irrelevant, since they are held constant between the different experimental groups.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Amber Nowak: I don't think you quite get the point of this experiment. The goal is to see <em>whether or not intercessory prayer can be measured in a standard experimental setting</em>, not whether there is a God. Here, God is irrelevant.  All of the variables you mention are simply irrelevant, since they are held constant between the different experimental groups.</p>
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		<title>By: Amber Nowak</title>
		<link>http://www.brainonfire.net/2006/03/30/intercessory-prayer-experiment-failed/comment-page-1/#comment-8270</link>
		<dc:creator>Amber Nowak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jan 2007 14:53:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brainonfire.net/?p=40#comment-8270</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;[Editor's note: /s/God/Loch Ness Monster/, /s/Jesus/Indiana Jones/]&lt;/i&gt;

Loch Ness Monster is not a genie in a bottle , and what may be best for someone or someone around us may not be a smooth recovery or healing. Loch Ness Monster hears us and promises to walk with us if we put our trust in him. If everyone prayed for were healed there would be no death , struggles ect. Ultimantly the world would not be as Loch Ness Monster says it is going to be. I do believe in prayer and I know he answers ,I have no problem praying that someone is healed or doing better. But ultimently the big picture and overall concern for the person is the overall well being and understanding that Loch Ness Monster IS.
He IS and we are not and should be cautioned . Humbly and boldly going befor him in a right standing accepting his answeres and trusting on him.
Another problem with this exspirement would be the people praying. Each idividuals motives. Weather Loch Ness Monster would answer them at all.Also there is the individual , they have free will, and though it may be hard to believe there are many I have seen that like to live in the misery of it all and decline the help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>[Editor's note: /s/God/Loch Ness Monster/, /s/Jesus/Indiana Jones/]</i></p>
<p>Loch Ness Monster is not a genie in a bottle , and what may be best for someone or someone around us may not be a smooth recovery or healing. Loch Ness Monster hears us and promises to walk with us if we put our trust in him. If everyone prayed for were healed there would be no death , struggles ect. Ultimantly the world would not be as Loch Ness Monster says it is going to be. I do believe in prayer and I know he answers ,I have no problem praying that someone is healed or doing better. But ultimently the big picture and overall concern for the person is the overall well being and understanding that Loch Ness Monster IS.<br />
He IS and we are not and should be cautioned . Humbly and boldly going befor him in a right standing accepting his answeres and trusting on him.<br />
Another problem with this exspirement would be the people praying. Each idividuals motives. Weather Loch Ness Monster would answer them at all.Also there is the individual , they have free will, and though it may be hard to believe there are many I have seen that like to live in the misery of it all and decline the help.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim McCormack</title>
		<link>http://www.brainonfire.net/2006/03/30/intercessory-prayer-experiment-failed/comment-page-1/#comment-22</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim McCormack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 May 2006 02:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brainonfire.net/?p=40#comment-22</guid>
		<description>@Jacqui: You say "It just wouldn’t happen in real life".  But the experiment wasn't supposed to mimic real life, it was supposed to measure possible effects of prayer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jacqui: You say "It just wouldn’t happen in real life".  But the experiment wasn't supposed to mimic real life, it was supposed to measure possible effects of prayer.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacqui</title>
		<link>http://www.brainonfire.net/2006/03/30/intercessory-prayer-experiment-failed/comment-page-1/#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacqui</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 May 2006 02:48:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brainonfire.net/?p=40#comment-21</guid>
		<description>I can sort of see why the researchers left out telling people they weren't being prayed for (though you're right, it does make an imperfect set up). Can you imagine someone saying, "I've got cancer," and the other person saying, "Well, I won't pray for you"? It just wouldn't happen in real life (unless the person was a supreme asshole).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can sort of see why the researchers left out telling people they weren't being prayed for (though you're right, it does make an imperfect set up). Can you imagine someone saying, "I've got cancer," and the other person saying, "Well, I won't pray for you"? It just wouldn't happen in real life (unless the person was a supreme asshole).</p>
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